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Becoming An Expert Communicator with Guest John Gray: MakingBank S2E11

with John Gray



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The way in which we deal with our loved ones after a tough day goes something like this:

  • Person 1 shares the problem
  • Person 2 tries to fix the problem
  • The solution offered by Person 2 fails to appropriately address Person 1’s problem
  • Person 1 expresses frustration with Person 2 for failing to solve the problem
  • Person 2 shuts down and mentally exits the conversation

It’s called the communication breakdown, and it occurs in more homes than you can possibly imagine.

But what if communication didn’t have to be this way?

What if you could break the mold and deliver the exact message your loved one not only needed to hear, but wanted to hear?

Sound too good to be true? Well, it’s not, as today’s Making Bank guest, Dr. John Gray, will tell you.

Dr. Gray is a relationship expert and highly acclaimed author, best known for his #1 best-selling book, Men Are from Mars and Women Are from Venus, which is considered one of the Top 10 most influential books of the last century. Dr.Gray has been featured on Oprah, Good Morning America, The Dr. Oz Show, and TODAY and in publications like Time, Forbes, and USA Today. He’s been married for more than 30 years and attributes his relational success to practicing what he preaches.

Stated plainly, Dr. Gray has built an illustrious career by simply analyzing how couples communicate under stress, and then interpreting those conversations through the lens of hormonal and physiological differences between the sexes:

  • Why does she feel compelled to share her problem?
  • Why does he try to fix it?
  • Why do his attempts to help only serve to exasperate the problem?

In this episode, Josh and Dr. Gray address these and other questions as they discuss the importance of understanding how hormones impact the ability of men and women respond to stress. He will also highlight best practices for supporting the opposite sex, explain why a woman’s need for estrogen and a man’s need for testosterone should shape what we expect from our partners, and how these lessons apply to platonic relationships as well…

  • The evolution of relationships in regards to our male and female sides
  • Decoding what a women NEEDS after a stressful work day
  • Stress and how it influences our hormonal levels as men and women
  • Retreating to a “Man Cave” to replenish testosterone for men
  • The depletion of testosterone in men
  • The cyclical nature of our hormones in relation to our sex lives
  • Why you should WAIT to release your hormonal energy
  • The need for GREAT sex in maintaining healthy testosterone levels

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I’m Josh Felber. You’re watching Making Bank where we uncover the success strategies and the secrets of the top 1%, so you could amplify it and prove your life and your business today. We’re shooting live from the Bulletproof Conference and I’m extremely honored to have one of the most fascinating guest with me today. He has sold over gazillions of books, the top relationship expert and-

John Gray: Married for 31 years.

Josh Felber: Married for 31 years. Yes.

John Gray: I walk my talk.

Josh Felber: I’m excited today to welcome John Gray to Making Bank. Welcome.

John Gray: Well, thank you. It’s such a pleasure to be here. I’m excited to talk about this stuff.

Josh Felber: I remember reading Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus just years ago-

John Gray: 25 years ago, I wrote that.

Josh Felber: 25 years, okay. Well, I mean probably for me, I read it 18 years ago.

John Gray: Alright-

Josh Felber: And I’m okay, this will help me in dating. This will help me connect with women better, and just try to understand the whole perspective. That was my first introduction to you. So I think it’s hopefully impacted my life for the better, and I have an awesome wife now.

John Gray: Alright-

Josh Felber: And I think it let me in that right direction, and married nine year tomorrow.

John Gray: Alright, great, sounds like it helped.

Josh Felber: So definitely, for sure.

John Gray: Help anybody to understand if your partner is different from you, and women and men do have differences.

Josh Felber: Sure-

John Gray: No question about it. If you can understand those differences in a positive way, then you kind of know how to deal with it better so relationships are easier.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: It’s an evolving knowledge. I’ve written many, many books, but over the last 25 years, men are women are still inside, biologically speaking, brain wise, the same, but the terrain of relationships has dramatically changed. In a sense, women have moved more to their male side, and men have moved more to their female side. Actually being an entrepreneur, and saying I want to do my own thing, I want to follow my bliss, I want to follow my goals, my mission, my purpose, as opposed to work for somebody else, that’s called going to your female side. That’s called doing what feels good to you, rather than going through the grind. There’s challenges for men as we go over to our female side, and is challenges, huge challenges for women, because they’re over on their male side.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: Now we can go, “What’s the difference between men and women?” We all have a male and female side, however, biologically speaking, men need to make sure their male hormones are getting the right amount of stimulation, otherwise they’re stressed. They don’t sleep well. The end of getting heart disease, all kinds of problems. Women on the other hand, they need to make sure while they’re making male hormones in the workplace, that they come home, or in their personal relationships, they’re producing plenty of female hormones, to find a balance for them, that keeps their stress down.

Women today, all over the place, what I see, and I’ve watched it over the last 40 years, they’ve been becoming more overwhelmed, more stressed, more dissatisfied in their relationships. Not being able to trust men, not being able to depend on men, or simply not being able to sleep at night. These are all symptoms of a biological imbalance in their body, which you can correct with insight, and learning how to stimulate those hormones. Not necessarily take hormones, which is what so many women are doing.

Josh Felber: Right, just [inaudible 00:04:14]. That brings up some really interesting, fascinating points. For example, my wife, she’s An entrepreneur, and she’s running her business. She does, she gets overwhelmed, and the stress, and does have a hard time sleeping at night.

John Gray: Yeah, those are the symptoms.

Josh Felber: So what are the steps that they need to do, to take to start I guess had that balance as you say?

John Gray: Well, there’s a lot of steps, but we have a short interview here so I can refer back to Men Are from Mars. I can also refer to my latest book that is coming out very soon, which is called Beyond Mars and Venus.

Josh Felber: Okay-

John Gray: Because in Beyond Mars and Venus, This is 30 years after I wrote Men Are from Mars, and I’ve learned a lot about women during that time, and a lot about men, in terms of our hormonal balance. So one of the key things for women, immediate take away, is to recognize the importance of talking about their feelings. See what happens is when women are more on their male side, their estrogen levels drop.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: Estrogen is so important for women, to make estrogen, not take estrogen, but to be able to make estrogen. So what does that for her, is expressing feeling, because when you’re in your male side, you’re goal oriented, you’re detached, you’re focused, you get it done, but inside there’s a lot of stress building up. So when she comes home, what she needs is an understanding husband who will say, “Let’s take 10 minutes and talk about your day.” During that time, she vents whatever is going on inside of her, and that’s a big challenge for women on their male side, because they’re afraid of looking weak. They’re afraid of wasting your time. They don’t want to bring you down. They feel like what’s the point. That’s what we think is men-

Josh Felber: Right-

John Gray: Because they’re on their male side, and that’s right for us, what’s the point.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: But for her, it raises estrogen. What we have to look is biologically speaking, even if a woman is on her male side, when she’s feeling stressed, her body’s reaction is eight times more blood flow to the limbic system of the brain. To the emotional part of the brain. Press man, less blood flow to the limbic system. We detach under moderate stress. Women become more attached, and there’s more emotions, but in the work world you have to push that down. Push that down, so women are constantly suppressing their emotions. They come home, if they even share a little bit like, “Oh my God, there was so much traffic on the freeway.” A guy will say, “Well, which freeway did you take? You ought to try that exit over there, and you take this route there.”

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: We go right into the testosterone mode to fix it, solve it, and don’t be upset about it.

Josh Felber: That’s me, for sure.

John Gray: That’s right, that’s what we do. So there’s no room for her to vent, and she has to do it more than women in any time in history. This is a new science of how women can share what’s going on inside of them. They always think that men don’t talk about feelings, or get in touch with feelings. Women don’t, and until they lose control, and it comes out, but to be able to peacefully say, “Oh my gosh. Today it was so frustrating.” So share feelings of frustration, disappointment, and concern, and sometimes embarrassment. Then share positive feelings. I love my job. I appreciate it. Everything is good. Will happen is she produces a huge amount of estrogen. Her stress will go down, and that’s it. That’s one practical technique, but what happens is when women don’t do that, is it all builds up, and then they complain about you. See it all targets on you, because you’re there.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: So the key to it is, if you want a man to listen to you, share your quote, negative feelings. They’re actually necessary to come out. There’s what you feel, they’re not negative, but they don’t have a real positive message in them. Is you share about things that have nothing to do with your partner, A. You tell him you don’t need to fix anything. You don’t have to solve anything. Just look at me, listen, and I’ll give you a hug afterwards, and just, I want to feel your support. That’s it. It’s kind of like you’re providing a hug for her feelings to come up, and be gone, not to address. That’s a whole new thing, for both men to learn how to listen, for women to learn how to share so he doesn’t get defensive.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: Because if you complain about him, we have a reaction. What women don’t understand, is whenever you complain to a man about him, he’s going to have a fight or flight response. Blood flow will stop to the part of the brain where he can hear another point of view. His ability to feel empathy will disappear. He can handle so much, and as soon as you feel like, “You know, I’m not being appreciated. I’m not being seen for who I am here.” That’s danger. That bigger danger than losing money, is to lose your wife’s love.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: So deep inside his reptilian brain, we have this fight or flight reaction. During that time we’re incapable of feeling empathy for what she’s going through, and that’s what she’s looking for.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: She needs empathy. She needs connection. Some women make the mistake of asking him, wanting to know what he is feeling, what he’s thinking. Sort of in a sense, penetrating him, rather than let him penetrate her. You get connection either way, but if you penetrate him, it just creates his estrogen. We need more testosterone as men. She needs more estrogen.

Josh Felber: Wow, that’s interesting because it does make sense when you think about it now. Especially in thinking, okay, different conversations. I was going to that fix-it mode, instead of just listening, and just leaving it as is.

John Gray: To a man, if you don’t have this knowledge of our differences, a woman starts talking about a problem, we’re like firemen, when we see a problem, our testosterone shoots up and we say, “Okay, forget about it. Don’t worry about it. Do this, do that. Don’t think that.” That’s the way we process stress, and that’s the way we should process stress. That’s the way we are designed to process stress. They’re designed to have an emotional reaction, and talk about it, but in our society today, there’s no room for women to talk about it.

Guess what, historically, women have never talked to men about it, because men don’t know how to listen. If a woman talk to a man, he’d say, “Well don’t worry about that, it’s not a big deal. Where you getting upset? There’s nothing wrong.” So we have to recognize, we are a more involved being today. Evolution is taking place. We have access to male and female sides, but we have two learn in our marriages, in our relationships, and are dating relationships, in our personal life, how to maintain polarity.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: Because when men’s testosterone goes down, their stress levels tend to be higher. When women stress levels are higher, their estrogen levels tend to drop.

Josh Felber: That’s one of the big things too I think is, having a good relationship with your spouse, and, or, it can also help feed into your business, and being able to work with your team, and be able to-

John Gray: Oh yeah. I mean basically, we’re talking about stress management. All of this information is important, even if you’re not in a relationship.

Josh Felber: Right [crosstalk 00:10:44]-

John Gray: The whole point is that I’m in the zone. Right now I’m in the zone. Almost all the time I’m in the zone. I just finished this book. I worked 18 hours a day. Clear, and then editing, and not feeling frustrated. I used to be so frustrated. Postponement, procrastination, this is all stress inside the body. When men understand how to balance their own internal hormones, or women understand how to balance their own hormones, their overwhelmed goes away. Their stress levels go down. Men’s energy levels particularly, pick up. So this is stress management for men, stress management for women.

So what does it mean, is you are going to be your most creative self as a man, when you got a nice balance of estrogen and testosterone. That’s your male, female side. That’s creativity. That’s what makes babies. It creates thoughts. Everything about successes making the right decisions.

Josh Felber: For sure.

John Gray: If you don’t make the right decisions … I still remember the day I decided to write Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. It was a perfect balance that day, and boy in my life change from that. One decision, one moment, you make a decision, you want to catch those times where it change your whole life. So lowering stress, coming to a place of creativity, is so important. For men, what we have to recognize, if we overwork, we actually drain ourselves about ability. We’ve got to work hard. What that does, it stimulates the hormone testosterone. We need to work hard, okay. We need to be challenged, like going to a gym. Our work, we need to do things that don’t always feel good. We have to do the hard stuff.

Josh Felber: Yeah.

John Gray: It’s important to do that to some extent. So I feel within myself, “Oh I don’t want to do that.” That’s a thing I need to do.

Josh Felber: Right, for sure-

John Gray: See, it’s kind of like, “Oh, I’d rather not do that.” Then build up that muscle, and go do that. So that’s the first thing, is keep your word. Get things done, but don’t overwork. Then what you do is at the end of the day, when the sun is that, you relax. You gotta stop working. We tend to get on the computer, and we keep going, and keep going. What’s happening, is when you’re making testosterone, your body is making it as a man, and we need to make 10 to 30 times more than a woman.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: And basically, an entrepreneur man, needs to make 20 to 30 times more.

Josh Felber: Wow, okay-

John Gray: Because we’re Alpha, nobody is bossing us around. We’re pushing it out there. You need more testosterone. So it happens, is you work hard, it increases the testosterone, but it uses it up at the same time. So is a net gain loss. Gain, loss-

Josh Felber: Right, you’re making it, and losing it-

John Gray: At those times when you lose confidence, where you feel stressed, there’s that moment where, “I don’t know what’s going to happen.” You start feeling stressed. What happens is you go into a deficit of testosterone. Basically your storage of testosterone starts to drop. The typically in a stressful day, you’re going to come home, and your testosterone levels are going to be low. Your tendency is to keep working, because that will keep making it, but you don’t fulfill the deficit.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: You got to replenish yourself, and this is why all traditions always had meditation for men. Even before they lived in a stressful world, you come home, you quite the mind. You don’t whine and complain. You don’t talk about things. You let your mind become quiet, and that’s what meditation really is. Now you could sit and watch a football game, the same thing will happen. Although, I think meditation is superior, but you could also watch the news, and that will also disconnect you from your problems, so you stop thinking about them. So you’re relaxing, and while you’re staying alert, your brain has to make plenty of dopamine, and testosterone. Something that’s interesting to you, but it can’t stress you out in any way. I call that cave time, that’s men go into their cave.

Okay, you do whatever feels good to you, but keeps you awake, and aware, and it’s not nurturing time. It’s not where you’re bonding with your wife. It’s not when you’re bonding with your children. You can’t be making estrogen at that time. It could be a hobby. It could be watching the news. It could be meditating. It could be working out. Whatever it is, you want to do this activity, while your muscles are relaxing. The only exception of that is working out. Your muscles aren’t relaxing, but afterwards, after working out, then you make sure your muscles relax, because it’s when your muscles relax, while your body is making plenty of testosterone, that’s how you replenish your testosterone levels. So you have great sex. You also have great energy, and clarity for your hard work. This is men needing to understand their hormones.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: This all blows my mind. This is 25 years of research into men’s hormones, women’s hormones, making sense of it.

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Josh Felber: And so in the new book, is this kind of more of the focus with the new book? Or what’s kind of The Beyond Men-

John Gray: Well, the Beyond Mars Venus is the fact that, men and women are no longer in stereotypical roles.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: As soon as women step out, and they become more like man, and men step out, and become more like women … It’s not like were wearing skirts, it’s we’re following our heart. We’re doing what we want. So as soon as we shift into following our feelings more, you got a whole new dance. Men’s testosterone levels are dropping, and this is a crisis today. Your average 35 year-old man, his testosterone levels start to drop. They’re even saying in time magazine, this is normal and natural. No, it’s just a phenomenon that happening today.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: The average man at 50, has half the testosterone levels of a young man.

Josh Felber: Wow.

John Gray: Minor 25% higher at 65.

Josh Felber: That’s awesome.

John Gray: No, why is that? Well, you go to indigenous cultures, what you’ll see is they never go down. Men’s testosterone levels should not go down.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: If anything, if they become more confident, and more successful, they go up.

Josh Felber: Sure, yeah.

John Gray: So this is a phenomenon that the current today, because men don’t know how to manage male hormones in their system. A big thing for young men, is all of this pornography.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: They don’t realize that when they go online, they’re depleting themselves of high testosterone levels. I mean if you have sex with your wife, and she’s loving you, then you’re giving your energy, it comes back to you, because you feel this oneness. They are both being fulfilled. It’s a circulation of energy, but when you’re having sex with a computer, or a picture, it’s what is called fantasy sex, it produces maybe five times more dopamine in the brain.

Josh Felber: Right, okay. I remember reading something-

John Gray: It’s like taking a drug. Yeah, it’s like a drug, and then your testosterone levels shoot up, but then they go further down, and they keep going down, down, down. For young men, who do a lot of porn in their teens, now with a real girl, they can’t even get it up. That’s because their testosterone levels are dropping so much. So it’s not like you can look sometimes or whatever, but there’s exercises that I teach, where men can learn to take the energy of arousal, and not release it, but channel it up and around. These are breathing exercises.

Josh Felber: Okay-

John Gray: [crosstalk 00:18:03] I teach that at all my classes, but it takes a lot of time to learn that.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: But the key take away is don’t be releasing your energy all the time. Generally about once a week is when a man needs to. Now this is, how do I say that, well the Japanese actually did this study. What they found is if a man releases his energy, ejaculates, and he doesn’t ejaculate for another six days, and the seventh day, his testosterone levels will double.

Josh Felber: Wow.

John Gray: Why do they double? To motivate him to go make a baby.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: This is all evolutionary stuff. We have cycles that are going on inside, and we want to make sure we honor those. A man needs to have a high testosterone. So repeating that thing will bring back higher testosterone levels in a man. Now if you’re married, and your sex life is sort of going down, either you’re having no sex, or you’re having sex two or three times a week. If it’s kind of becomes routine or whatever, then only have it once a week for a while, or completely. That’s pretty much for me. I’m only release once a week.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: It keeps my energy totally high. I could be affectionate, I can do sensuality. We can get all aroused and turned on, but I don’t release my energy. That’s learning how to strengthen the muscles down south. You gotta build these muscles in. These are called Kegel exercises, along with breathing exercises, so that when you get turned on as a man, you don’t have to release it. The energy just goes up, your brain just becomes on supercharge. Now the women have to learn stuff too. It’s not just men, but I figure since I’m talking to a guy, I’d share a bit about that.

Josh Felber: No, for sure, and I remember … I was just talking to somebody yesterday while we were here, and a friend of mine, a guy I know, they do a lot of blood tests, and they were meant a lot. Their whole focus, he was just saying is the testosterone has just been dropping and dropping-

John Gray: It’s huge, huge-

Josh Felber: And it’s been depleting over the years. People, as they get older, and they’re going to their doctor, and they’re like, “Oh yeah, it’s okay. That’s just normal.”

John Gray: While they think it’s normal, or they say, “You need injections, or you need a cream, or whatever.” Yeah, you’ll feel better. You see all those pictures. You see in the magazines, there’s always that guy that, he was 65 years old, he’s all built like this. He’s taking testosterone. Then he dies at 80 of cancer.

Josh Felber: Yeah.

John Gray: In my opinion, taking testosterone is a huge mistake. What we want, is to make it. That’s what men are designed to do, is make it. Nobody understands this whole dynamic of the energy system, what men need, because as men are following their feelings more, which is part of progress; let’s follow our hearts, let’s open our hearts, let’s love our kids, let’s love our wives, just the research shows that when you get married, your testosterone levels drop.

Josh Felber: Wow.

John Gray: That’s for the average American guy, because he doesn’t know how to rebuild them, and his wife doesn’t know how to rebuild it for him. Many regular sex, and they need a woman to have orgasms in order to stay Alpha. If you’re not giving a woman an orgasm, and you’re married, it’s like, “What’s wrong with you?” The body says, “You’ve got a job to do. You’re expendable now.”

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: So is a key thing that … Not every time you have sex, generally, as a general rule, women have real orgasm, they can be orgasmic, and experience kind of little orgasms every day for some women. Everyone is different, what kind of foods do you like or whatever. But generally speaking, it’s 20% of the time, a woman who is regularly having sex, will have a full blown orgasm.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: And that’s essential for his energetics as well, as well as essential for her energetics.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: This happens during a five day window of the month.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: That’s why I have this book, it’s just understanding women’s hormones. They’re changing all the time, and after her period, up as she’s going towards ovulation, there’s 10 days. There’s five days where she has kind of a testosterone, estrogen balance. She doesn’t need much from a man. She needs career at that time. Then boom, testosterone drops, estrogen shoots up, and she need intimacy, physical intimacy. If she does not get it then, meaning she’s ovulating, if she doesn’t get what her body is designed to do, then her stress levels are going to increase for the next 18 days.

Josh Felber: Wow-

John Gray: Nothing you can do about it then.

Josh Felber: That’s interesting-

John Gray: She’s just going to have this little resentment inside-

Josh Felber: Sure-

John Gray: She’s going to feel some dissatisfaction at time. That’s when she needed the most. Then, after five days, estrogen is not the key hormone. Progesterone is the key hormone, and progesterone is not produced when you’re being affectionate, and attentive.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: That’s when women have to shift gears, and say, “I can make myself happy through self nurturing, or social bonding.” These are two activities that have been proven now to increase progesterone, that lowers her stress levels. You don’t produce that. You can produce a little, but if she’s too far on her male side, she can’t come back to her female side to make the progesterone. So then we have another hormone called oxytocin. That’s where you give her a hug. She talks about her day a little bit. That stimulates oxytocin. Oxytocin lowers her testosterone, so now her body can make progesterone, if she shifts from being attentive to you, and looking to her own self to be happy.

So this is an amazing distinction, and nobody disagrees with the idea that we all are grown-ups. We have to be responsible for our [crosstalk 00:23:02]-

Josh Felber: Right-

John Gray: And I say that, everybody goes, “Yeah, we’re all responsible for our happiness.” But what goes on in a marriage? “You make me feel, you make me feel. You did that, you didn’t do this.” Then we start blaming our partner for our stress inside.

Josh Felber: For sure-

John Gray: Well particularly for those 18 days after ovulation for a woman, that’s when she really has to focus on herself, with his help to produce some oxytocin, but she is responsible particularly for happiness. In the next five days after her period, her work, she needs to be creating and doing whatever, and she can be doing that the whole month of course, but that’s what is most important that she gets visions, and ideas, and creativity, and follows through. Then bang, after those five days, it drops, and she need intimacy. She’s need a lot of oxytocin.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: So the man, after her period, you have a conversation with her, and you go, “Okay, let’s plan a date next week.”

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: So a week, she’s got seven days to anticipate something for her.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: See that’s what romance is, it’s not for you, it’s for her. We have to get that. Women will say, “What do you want to do?” No, no, no, it’s what does she want to do. But what you do is you say, “Let’s talk about other things you want to do.” So [inaudible 00:24:07] two or three. Then you, the guy, you pick. You make the decision. You deliver. That’s what makes it romantic, but you don’t know what to do every week for her, or once a month particularly for this better than usual date. I think a good date every week is good, because it gives her some extra support, so that when you have sex, she’s going to have lots of oxytocin, because she can’t have a climax without the right balance of hormones in her body.

Josh Felber: Well, and the interesting thing is, from my perspective here, is understanding, and really knowing the whole hormonal balance and everything else, will help you just in your relationships, but help you be a better person as well, as a better entrepreneur, to be more successful.

John Gray: Oh yeah, I mean-

Josh Felber: Because then you know when to be creative, at the right times-

John Gray: Yeah-

Josh Felber: Went to focus on other areas-

John Gray: And you know when you’re burning out. I mention so much, entrepreneurs, it’s like there’s no off switch.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: Particularly women don’t have an off switch.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: Even you get a guy, who Is not an entrepreneur, our brain is designed to turn off at sunset. If you take a guy who is not an entrepreneur, he’s just working a job, and you put them on a couch with an EEG machine, basically our blood flow test, his blood flow particularly stops in the brain when the sun sets.

Josh Felber: Wow.

John Gray: That’s, you gotta relax.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: You gotta relax. You gotta stop putting yourself in that somewhat fight or flight mode of, I got to get this done. The bottom line is coming up, what am I going to do? That’s dry that every man needs, but he needs just the opposite at the end of the day.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: Women, they get in that male side, they do not have an off switch. Take a woman, busy working all day in a male job, making money, now it’s a female job too, but it’s the traditional male job, and she comes home, put her on a couch, her brain becomes more active. Women do not have an off switch, but what they do have, is if you stimulate more oxytocin in them, it will drop their testosterone. Then their brain can turn off.

Josh Felber: Gotcha.

John Gray: The shift there, unless it’s during those magic five days, she needs to look at now what makes me happy, and do what makes her happy. It’s a discipline. Many women say, “I don’t have time for that. I can’t do that.” Well that’s because your brain is out of balance, and your hormones are out of balance. You create your life, but people feel, “Oh, I have to do this. I have to do this.” I always tell women, “As soon as you say to yourself I have to do something, testosterone goes up, estrogen goes down.”

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: Now there are things you have to do, but you don’t say, “I have to do it.” You say, “I want to do it.”

Josh Felber: Right, okay, instead oh have to.

John Gray: This is the basis of happiness for women. Now for men, have to was great. I’ve got to get up. Otherwise, we’ll just go to our female side, and do what we like to do. No, I have to do this. That’s why you keep making commitments. As a man, follow through. Even little things, I’m gonna do it. It strengthens testosterone level, achieving goals. Easy to achieve goals, a little challenging, but you get them done. But for a woman, that have to energy, increases her male side.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: Now she’s going to go over there, but what she can do to find balance, is question herself again and again. This whole conversation, “I have to do this, I have to do this, but I have to, I forgot to that.” This thing goes on, this chatter us going on in her brain all the time. So she can stop that, partially, by saying, “Okay, I have to do that. Why do I have to do that? Because this, and this, and this. Any why is that important? Because I want this, and this, and this.”

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: “I have to take my kids to school, I have no time.” Okay, as soon as you say that you go, “Okay, why do I want to take my kids to school. Why do I have to? Because I want my kids to go to school? And what do you want your kids to go to school? I want them to be happy, and fulfilled in their life.” Boom, now you’re creating a little nurturing energy, and that’s estrogen. That’s what lower stress for women. It’s cool stuff.

Josh Felber: No, I … It’s-

John Gray: Nobody knows the stuff. It’s all new. I mean, wow.

Josh Felber: No, I mean it is. It is really awesome information, because as I’m sitting here processing it, I can see how everything comes together, and really makes sense with it all. So I guess where can people come to you to learn about this?

John Gray: Yes, what they can do … Well first of all, this is the new book, Beyond Mars and Venus. People can go on Amazon, get an advanced order-

Josh Felber: Okay, so when is it-

John Gray: January 2017-

Josh Felber: Okay-

John Gray: It should be coming out-

Josh Felber: But we can pre-order it now?

John Gray: You can pre-order it now on Amazon.

Josh Felber: Awesome-

John Gray: That’s the first thing. If you’re motivated, do it now, otherwise you’ll forget it.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: The other thing I do, is I do a course for women only.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: People should know about that, at my website MarsVenus. Now the reason women only, is when women are there, I’m the only guy in the room, and they forget I’m a guy because I understand women so well. They open up, and I can help them get to that very vulnerable place. I also help them understand, keep it secret, how to train men.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: Now men don’t like to say we’re being trained. You have to train men. I mean to learn new software, we need training. We go to the gym, we need training. We’re an athlete, we need training, but nobody wants to be trained by your wife. I teach women how to do it without a man knowing he’s being trained. Okay, he’s just being loved. Okay, so that’s where I with women, the secrets about training a man. Okay, the next one, my soulmate seminar. Soulmate seminar is to get singles, and couples, both coming to learn the basic relationship skills. So we do a lot of exercises, and insight. Understanding our hormones, understanding what, and how to provide the support a woman needs. She learns the languaging, how to support a man, increasing his testosterone, because the ultimate reason that men can’t keep their testosterone level up, is they’re having passionate sex every week. If you’re not having passionate sex every week, your health is declining.

Josh Felber: Wow.

John Gray: This is even proven. The people who have the least cancer, least heart disease, least obesity, least diabetes, all the healthiest people in the world, are happily married, active in their sex life. Active in their sex life does not mean they’re having sex three times a week.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: It could just be once a week, but generally speaking once a week, once every nine days, if you’re in your 80s, basically that’s what keeps men going. Now you could be having more, but sex needs to be great.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: And without Viagra as well. Half of the mean today are taking Viagra. That’s a big problem if you need to take Viagra. You need to get on board my program. So this is a soulmate seminar.

Josh Felber: Awesome.

John Gray: That’s a four-day seminar that people [crosstalk 00:30:01]-

Josh Felber: And that’s for couples too?

John Gray: That’s for couples and singles.

Josh Felber: Okay-

John Gray: And is really good for couples to kind of see the issues that single people are going through. Single people get to see the issues couples are going through.

Josh Felber: Right-

John Gray: Because often we fantasize in marriage that we want to be single again, and people-

Josh Felber: So you can see that right-

John Gray: It’s always a good thing, and also the single women often, and single men, will often free to verbalize themselves more, because nobody has to share anything, but lots of people feel safe-

Josh Felber: To do so-

John Gray: Particularly if their partner is not there, to share a lot of stuff.

Josh Felber: Right, okay.

John Gray: Nobody gets embarrassed. Then here’s my really cool one, it’s called Radiant Mind Experience.

Josh Felber: Okay.

John Gray: This is where I teach these breathing exercises, so that men can experience ongoing hormone balancing through your own meditation. There’s eight different meditation techniques for balancing the hormones, increasing testosterone, opening up your higher centers. For women as well, there’s different techniques for them. As far as I know, nobody really, clearly, distinctly shows how spiritual techniques are and expansion of the mind and consciousness. The process and journey can be different for women, then for men.

Josh Felber: Sure.

John Gray: A lot of the techniques that are easier for men, are harder for women. A lot of the techniques that are easier for women, are harder for men. Now when you get to a place and more access to your masculine and feminine sides, you can do all techniques, but for men, they start out with one. For example, quiet meditation. Most women will often say, “I can’t do that. My mind is too busy.” Well that’s because you’re doing the wrong technique. There’s a different technique for women. It’s more about the feelings of energy, and generating positive feelings, is her meditation. Then she’s like, “Wow, I can do this easy.”

Then, as men go into deeper meditation, then they can start to feel the energy. Once they can start to feel the flow of energy, then they can do that meditation that women can do as well. Women can now quiet their mind, once they get adept at being able to control their emotions, to transfer negative emotion into positive emotion. Then they can just create a feeling of peace, and the mind quiets, or a field of love, and the mind quiets.

I mean, this is such important information, and people go, “John, you’re the expert on relationships, how did you know all the stuff?” Well I spent nine years of a celibate monk before I became the relationship expert.

Josh Felber: Wow.

John Gray: And I spent several years teaching about sex, having been celibate for nine years, that’s all I thought about.

Josh Felber: Right-

John Gray: But I was very spiritual, so I created spiritual sex, and then came to actually good communication skills, and relationship. Then came, how do you develop your full potential as a man, finding that balance within yourself. Or a woman, finding that balance within yourself, to be completely creative, unlimited energy. Although, you have to be careful to get enough sleep, because you can just keep going.

Josh Felber: Right.

John Gray: I mean for me at 65, I go to China, 12 hour flight, another timezone, I don’t even experience jet lag.

Josh Felber: That’s awesome.

John Gray: I come home, I’m right on it with my wife. When I was young, it was like you’d be wiped out for a few days. You feel heaviness or whatever-

Josh Felber: Sure-

John Gray: Instead of being able to adapt quickly and efficiently.

Josh Felber: That’s awesome. It’s been an honor to have you on the show. Guys, make sure you get out and pre-order John’s book-

John Gray: Beyond Mars and Venus-

Josh Felber: Beyond Mars and Venus. Check out his different retreats.

John Gray: Yeah, retreats at is the place to go. Yeah,

Josh Felber: And so, it’s been an honor to have you here today. It’s really fascinating learning all this information, and I’m excited for the new book. I have to talk to my wife, maybe we can go check out some of the different retreats and everything.

John Gray: Very cool.

Josh Felber: See what you offer. So again, that’s for coming on Making Bank-

John Gray: Thank you-

Josh Felber: And I really appreciate it. Get out, get John’s information. Make sure you guys took lots of notes. I am Josh Felber, you’ve been watching Making Bank. Get out, and be extraordinary.