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Sales Copy that Sells with Guest Jon Benson: MakingBank S3E5

with Jon Benson



MAKING BANK is a weekly YouTube TV show and iTunes Podcast full of #Success and #Business with Josh.

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Many entrepreneurs struggle with copywriting because they are afraid of sounding salesy but what actually works in the world of internet marketing may surprise you.

Today on #MakingBank, host Josh Felber invites Jon Benson to discuss his journey to becoming a copywriter, the creation of the video sales industry and how business owners can become better copywriters.

Jon started his online empire in 2004, with the release of his first bestselling book, Fit Over 40. The success of Fit Over 40 propelled Jon into the online marketing spotlight. His second book, The Every Other Day Diet became the #1 diet book on the digital landscape, landing in the hands over 200,000 customers. 7 Minute Muscle came next in 2008, and Jon became the first fitness author to have two Top 10 books on the Clickbank marketplace at the same time in two different categories.

He is the CEO of Digital Publisher and JBF Health. In 2007 he created the creator of the video sales letter which became the #1 copywriting course online, and remains so to this day.

Jon is one of the most successful copywriters in history and is one of the few copywriters in to earn over $1B for his customers.

So, tune-in to hear Josh talk to Jon about how he got started, the best tips for becoming a great copywriter, and why it’s OK to sound salesy, as well as…

✔ How his bucket list started his career in copywriting.

✔ How Jon’s introduction to writing came from being in a band.

✔ Jon’s secret leading to a new book release later this year.

And more…

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Sales Copy that Sells with Guest Jon Benson: MakingBank S3E5

Josh Felber:                         Welcome to Making Bank, I am Josh Felber, where we uncover the success strategies, and the secrets of the top 1% so you can amplify and transform your life and your business today. I’m really excited for today’s guest, he was born to biological parents in Malaysia, Jon Bensen began his career at the age of four tending sheep and fur bearing mammals. His father, and forgive me if I mess this up, Akkmar Hollester Bensen, invented the manhole cover. But none of that was really true as far as you know. However, Jon is well recognized as one of the top sales copy strategists in the world. He is also the CEO of Digital Publisher and JBF Health. He is the creator of the video sales letter, which I’ve used his system, which has ushered in a new form of selling on the web as well as email copy pro, which is essentially AI, artificial intelligence, for email and it’s at

Today, Jon’s sellerator style of video sales letters have generated over $12 billion in sales for hundred of entrepreneurs and businesses as well as $1.2 billion in sales specifically for his customers and clients, making him one of the most successful copywriters in history.

Jon, I wanna welcome you to Making Bank today.

Jon Bensen:                          Hey! Thanks a lot. That’s a tough intro to read.

Josh Felber:                          I was reading it and I’m like-

Jon Bensen:                          You should read the whole version.

Josh Felber:                          So tell me, if you weren’t out herding sheep and mammals, what kinda got you all started in the whole copy writing field in the first place?

Jon Bensen:                          Pure luck. It was a necessity, I guess, because I never sought out to be a copywriter at all. I had started off on the … I’m still in the fitness world. I started off with a book I wrote. I had a bucket list of things I wanted to do, write a book was one of them. I wrote a book called “Fit over 40” 13 years ago and it … Tom Vinuto did the writing for it as far as the sales copy, and I knew nothing about sales copy. I thought it was totally absurd. I read that letter, I was like, “Who the hell is this guy?”

But it did really well and it opened my eyes to how you had to communicate from an online perspective. I went on to … bought that out from Tom and went on to do my own stuff. My second book was “Every Other Day Diet.” And that became a huge thing for me because that was the invention of video sales letters, but the sales page I wrote for it sucked because I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just flailing around and then one day was just playing around with video and was trying to shoot video like on YouTube and I thought … I didn’t want to shoot because I hadn’t shaved in a week and kinda looked worse than I do now. This is my “gym appearance”.

Anyway, I was like, “I’ll just put words on a screen.” And that turned into a video sales letter… that’s literally the birth of the video sales letter.

And I got kinda clever with it because when I was putting words on the screen I … You know I grew up in the advertising world at an ad firm for 10 years before this. Or 14 … so, black, white, and red were the colors that almost everyone used ubiquitously across the board for … So I said I’m gonna do this in black and white, because that’s the very bold ad kinda stuff, rather than color, you know. Then I’ll take the red words and I’ll use NLP, which I studied in college. I’ll put NLP commands in there, just to make it cool. Who knows?

Next thing you know, the video sales industry was born. Completely accidental. It was not … Showed it to Ryan Deiss and he created the product and I showed it to tons of other people and I created my own product later, obviously. But, that’s how it started.

And then, I kinda got good, almost by Fiat because people were just giving me .. write this video sales sales letter for me and I kinda knew how that worked, but but really didn’t understand copy. I never wrote a book on copy, I never studied copy. The only copy I literally only studied was that one letter from Tom, which was a really good letter to start with because he studied under Carlton, and I didn’t know who any of these guys were. It was only until like five, six years into my career were I started actually looking at other copywriters, and I still, to this very day …

I gave a talk on Monday night here in Vancouver, and I gave the worst advice ever. People ask me, “How did you get started?” … Don’t do it the way I did it. Because when I started, I said I was gonna do this as a creative expression because I’m one of those creative weirdos, and maybe I can come up with something new and fresh, and that’s the worst approach in the world for copy writing. The best approach is to copy everybody else’s stuff. Literally, copy it by hand. Learn and try to dissect the patterns that they’re following, the rhythm that they’re following and all that stuff. I did my own thing and got lucky.

My copy’s somewhat unique in places and it’s not in others because a great copy tends to follow itself. I would be a much better copy writer honestly if I would have said I’m gonna study Jon Gables and David Ogleby and Jon Carlton and then wrote along those lines. I’ve listened to Jon and those other guys talk all the time, so that stuff’s been absorbed into my subconscious, but that’s kinda how this got started and the rest is history.

Josh Felber:                          Awesome. So when you were in college, what inspired you to go just take NLP? Because most people have no clue what NLP is, or if they follow Tony Robbins or other different copywriters and stuff like that. So, what got you on that path?

Jon Bensen:                          It actually was Anthony Robbins. I met Tony a few times now and half my friends know him really well, so it’s kinda weird that that world kinda evolved in the way it did. But yeah, Tony Robins is probably the biggest credit to starting my own business, which had nothing to do with copywriting or internet marketing because internet marketing didn’t even exist when I started my own business. That was huge for me and Tony was the introduction to NLP and then it just so happened to be that one of the guys went to school with studied under Bandler, and I studied under him and it wasn’t a formal thing, I just studied it informally. I’ve always been … I went to college, I got a degree and all that kinda stuff. I’ve got two of them, as a matter of fact. But, I’ve never been into papers and certifications and all that stuff.

I’m kinda doing it my own way. Even in college I was really rebellious and barely … I mean, I graduated Magna Cum Laud but it was only because I showed up when I had to. I was at home, reading other books. I was a philosophy major, I was like, I wanna read this book! Very rebellious. Not to be a jerk or anything just because I just wanted to … I guess I’ve just always been that way. So, this kinda worked out.

Josh Felber:                          That’s awesome.

Jon Bensen:                          A non-people business.

Josh Felber:                          Yeah, you don’t really hear too many people … I read Tony, when I was 14, “unlimited Power” and started to dive into all that as well. You don’t hear too many people that, “Oh yeah, I just worked on studying some NLP and everything else.”

Are you naturally a writer in general? Or is that a skill that you’ve worked on throughout your career?

Jon Bensen:                          I started writing … I was a musician for 10 years in my early life. I started playing when I was in my early teens and playing bands all my life up until I was probably 30, 35. I still love to play, I just don’t have time. I’d love to be playing the same stuff. In bands … a couple bands I played with were signed bands and you’d have to write lyrics and stuff. That’s how I got started in writing. They were terrible. I was not Thom York of Radiohead. I did not have that degree of nuance in life. Plus, I grew up listening to Aerosmith, and punk, and grew up in that kind of world.

Now I can look at Mick Jagger lyrics and Steven Tyler lyrics and go, man, these guys were really good! They would say these little bitty phrases that were really powerful. Back then, I didn’t have that nuance so the lyrics were really stilted, but that’s how I got started. Then when I got in college, for whatever reason, I fell in love with Shakespeare, and John Dunn, and poets, probably because, you know … wooing women. But I fell in love with this thing and I found that when I sit down and I had a muse, I had someone to inspire me, that I could write. Or I thought I could. It didn’t sound like anything, so I’d show some of my professors my stuff and they were going, “Man, this is really good. You could actually do this as a poet. You could do this.”

So, I’ve had this secret for years: I’ve written poetry for 25 years and I’m gonna release my first book, finally, on this year. It’s not gonna put a couple zero’s in the bank account or anything, but that’s a passion. From writing poetry, which is all about evoking emotion, feeling with limited words, and creating rhythm … I don’t rhyme. In fact, A B A B A B just bores the shit outta me so I can’t do that. I write in very colorful ways and using words almost as you would use words on a palette. That taught me, without thinking about sales copy, how to write in general. Then when I wrote my first book, the book came almost easy. I mean, not easy, but I wasn’t struggling over completing a sentence or anything like that.

I continued to write more rhythmically because I’m a base player, so I have a lot of rhythm naturally. It just came out fairly well and then copy from practicing.

Josh Felber:                          Just practicing, yeah.

Jon Bensen:                          Yeah. And like I said, I didn’t start as a copywriter. I’ll get 10 people saying, “I’ll give you this money to write a VSL for me.” And I’m like, ummm okay. Sounds like an adventure! Literally!

I was living in an apartment in Austin with my girlfriend at the time and I remember the day I did this. I shut my laptop and it was right during the Google Slap of 2010. I had the best-selling book on … it was pretty much everything. It was finally past the penis book and it was awesome. And so making tons of money off this video sales letter and I thought, okay, this is it, I’m gonna retire at 45 or whatever people dream of … And then Google slaps … everyone that’s alive back then remembers this, when they slapped everyone. It was right around 2010. I remember getting the news, and everything shutting off and it was all because of the acai berry guys that were just [inaudible 00:11:29] the internet with pure dribble. I shut my laptop and I go, I quit. I just looked at her, I go, “I quit. I’m quitting internet marketing. Today. I’m quitting. I’m just done. I’ve written books and people have changed their lives and I saved their lives … I’m done it. Fuck it. Done it.”

That very day, I was totally serious. I have no idea what I’m gonna do, obviously I’m on my second lip for a few years, but after that I have no idea. And that night, I got a call from Mike Garry, and he goes, “Hey man, I’ll pay you $25,000 grand if you write a video sales letter for me.” And I’m like, really? No … okay. Sure. I can do that in a day. So that’s kinda how it started. Then [inaudible 00:12:22] it just kinda rolled from there.

I ended up like, wow, I’ve just started this whole new career. Yeah … right around that 2010 area when it happened.

Josh Felber:                          That’s the cool thing, the times when you have that adversity or those challenges where you think, oh, everything’s done for, and then that’s when the big doors open up a lot of times for you to move forward.

Jon Bensen:                          If anyone’s going through this today … guys, I think the best thing your audience can possibly hear is it does not matter who it is, everyone … You stood up with Russell’s the-shirt on and I remember speaking with Russell about two years ago and he said, “Dude, before click funnels we were downsizing our employees and we couldn’t make payroll and he was making tons of money before then. Now click funnels is this massive thing, right?

I talk to people all the time. Names I could name that’re like, I don’t know if I can buy groceries this week, next week they’ll make a million dollars. It’s so up and down, and internet marketers are usually terrible with money. The guys that aren’t … they don’t usually suffer this problem. Or the guys that have the recurring businesses. They tend to do really well.

But most internet marketers I know go through feast and famine periods. And go through periods where it’s like “wow”. You get this fake I’m – Ryan Geis said … he calls it the fake imposter syndrome, or the imposter syndrome. Fake is a little redundant there. The imposter syndrome. And we all feel that. If you ever feel like … you start making a little money and then all of a sudden you say I can’t pay the … just so you know, the same problem exists with different zeros behind it. It allows you to arrive at your problems in a different style, as Tony would say. But it’s the same problem.

I’ve never missed payroll, but there’s been a couple of months where I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to pull this off. Everything just hit in the perfect storm. We had to pay a lot of money in taxes, we had a divorce that I went through. Life happens. If that’s any encouragement, everyone goes through that. I just got going through it, so.

Josh Felber:                          And it’s not usually a one-time thing. It pops up throughout the life. I’ve been there myself and … Owning 15 different companies since I was 14, you always run into some kind of challenges along the way.

Jon Bensen:                          Wow. 15, huh?

Josh Felber:                          Yeah, all different areas. Computers, and when credit cards first got on the internet we were one of the first gateways out there that we launched and [crosstalk 00:14:55]. Skipjack Merchant Services right when Authorize.Net was coming out. But yeah, to hard code all the websites and all the backend pieces in-

Jon Bensen:                          Way back in the day when the eighth [inaudible 00:15:09] existed.

Josh Felber:                          It wasn’t all drag and drop click buttons.

Jon Bensen:                          Right, right. Yeah.

Josh Felber:                          For me now, the biggest thing is how can … I’ve never been from a creative standpoint, or writer’s standpoint, so I’ve been really focused on trying to learn how to write copy and try to study. You said if you were to go back, what would you recommend if somebody’s really wanting to start to learn and understand how to write copy and how to get their information out there to inspire and engage people.

Jon Bensen:                          This is like I said, that the worst advice that I could give you is to try to do this on your own. Did that work for me? Yeah, but that works for hardly anyone. It would not have worked for me if I wouldn’t have created videos sales letters, and just basically said, I’ll just take the same exact structure that I did for this Every Other Day Diet, and then put that into The Truth About Ads, put that into [inaudible 00:16:06] and on down the line. And then just through doing that I was repeating myself but I was fortunate that I was lucky enough to work on a formula that did work. I followed that formula and just stuck to it. The vast majority of people, I will highly recommend taking 10 guys you really like, study the letters that they write, write them out by hand, so that you get the neurological input, I hate writing by hand but it’s still a good way to do it, and look at how they’re writing their bullets, look at how their writing their verbs, look at where they’re using verbs, look at the ways that they are connecting to the pain of the prospect.

I always say this, your number one job as a marketer is to make your prospect feel completely understood. If you can do that, I feel … it’s almost impossible not to get a fail when somebody is reading your stuff going, “I feel like this guy or girl completely gets me.” That’s it. That’s better than entering a conversation in their head. Nothing against it, I forget who said that now. It’s one of the legends that said it. That’s even better than that, because there is a conversation going on in their head, but more than there is a conversation going on in their head, there is an entire story. They have an avatar of themselves in their head. Their world has an avatar.

If you can’t step into that avatar and not only say I experience the avatar and this and this and this, you’re going to lose them. Now, don’t get me wrong, if you can hook them with that conversation line … if you knew, for example, that your audience, the number one question on their mind was, “How do I get a better microphone?” That’s the number one [inaudible 00:17:41] you got and you start off a video sales letter, “Have you ever thought about how to get a better microphone?” Obviously, people are going to go, “Ah! That’s just what I was thinking this morning!”

That’s the conversation. What’s beneath the conversation is what’s really interesting. You know what? When your microphone sucks, your voice doesn’t come across that well on the internet, we know that. But, worse than that, you make a really bad impression. I don’t know about you, but when you make a bad impression, you feel kinda like a loser. Then you’re just drilling down deeper. You don’t feel good. Think about all the money that you’re leaving on the table because people are going, “Turn this off.”[crosstalk 00:18:18]

The avatar that I’m creating right there is “I’m afraid”. I’m afraid that I won’t be successful. I’m afraid that I won’t experience life, I won’t want to experience it. Then you tie in … that’s the pain aspect, obviously, then you tie in the pleasure.

What did it … what was like … the idea is how would life look if it was different? How would things look if this happened? What would your life look like if I was to take this away from you? Then I paint the picture for them, I don’t let them figure it out themselves. Mine looked like this, or this, or this.

Just in case that they’re thinking, “I don’t know, uh …” So, that’s just painting a story. A very roundabout, rough way to do it. If you look at great copy, great copy always does this, they always paint some story along the way that is creating a very succinct story where it is basically built around the pain, the journey they’re under the pleasure they’ll get from it. Then, of course, delivering the killer-offer. Where most copywriters fail, is they do not deliver the offer. They can write something really compelling and then the offer comes along and it’s kinda like an “aww shucks” kinda thing.

Now don’t take this if you don’t want it, but here’s something that’ll maybe help you because you’re afraid of sounding “sales-y”. I’m like, dude, how many things have you bought from a commercial? Commercials are as sales-y as it gets. It’s either offending every one of your sensibilities .. like the Audi commercial in the Superbowl that got a billion dislikes, that was the biggest piece of shit I’ve ever seen that was completely debunked by Audi itself. This really made me laugh, as a marketer. I’m watching this going, none of this is true. This isn’t remotely true. The wage gap’s been debunked by 20 different economic experts and I know women that just fucking kill out there. No one I know is like this. All the women I know are completely powerful and … No one even thinks in this way.

Then I’m thinking, wait, they’re pandering to this whole new audience. They’re trying to get the millennials in and everything. But then on the twitter feed, one of the very first comments was like, “So you guys pay women 22% less?” And they’re going “Oh no! When you adjust for all the wage and-” Well you just debunked your own argument! I was like, you literally just debunked your own argument.

In other words, they either insult your intelligence and they do the dancing banana thing. Or they just think, “Hey! It’s a sale! It’s a sale! Buy! It’s completely over the top, ridiculously sales heavy and you’ll buy from that. You buy from Apple, right?

Josh Felber:                          Yeah.

Jon Bensen:                          You think apple is not “salesy?” “The iPad is the greatest thing ever invented!” And with a British accent. And it pretty much is. So, don’t be afraid of the sale and don’t be afraid of saying things like, “This is really awesome.” But then if you … and I’m going deep and diving into copy, if you speak of sales, not only in the position of not only is this awesome, it’s gonna help ease this pain, give you this pleasure, it’s also gonna connect you with more people. It’s gonna connect you with people who are a lot like you that you wanna connect with, or whatever the case may be so. Human connection, very important in sales.

Josh Felber:                          One of the things I know, and I just became part of it was you noticed there was certain patterns and things and different stuff like that when writing copy and I know with your sellerator it was a way to help create better VSL’s and streamline the whole process, and you’ve recently rolled out a new program called email copy pro, which I mention in the bio is an artificial intelligence for helping to write copy.

Jon Bensen:                          Yes, very much so. It is. I’ve had some interesting experiences in the past couple weeks, sharing this with people, its just rolled out the beta but it is very much AI for email. As close as it’s gonna get. The gist of it was a little over two years ago I sat down and I got a lot of people from the sellerator community asking hey can you do this for email? And I’m like, no. You can create swipe files that you fill in a few blanks and it’s like, “Do you have problems with FOOT FUNGUS? If FOOT FUNGUS bothers you, then FOOT FUNGUS …” you can write that kinda stuff. It sounds really stilted, and basically like scripto [crosstalk 00:22:42]Or stuff like that.

It’s like I said from stage, do I get a free bowl of soup when I buy this? It’s that kind of a thing. It’s not … they’re not copywriters writing really compelling copy that we were just talking about. How do you do that for every industry in the world and how do you do this to where people have to fill in their own data. And I thought, why don’t we take what we’re worked in sellerator which is limiting the data and made you fill in certain things, and then, roll it around those blanks. Then we got more and more creative and said, what if, instead of creating a version of let’s say, this killer email template that’s got a lot of juice, a lot of power behind it.

What if we recreated every sentence like, 20 times? And then randomly generated the whole thing? What would it look like? And then what if we randomly generated your input? So we knew which input it would have with the right verb tenses, with the right etiquette, and it randomly generates, what would it look like?

So the structure stays the same, and that ended up being email copy pro. Then we went one step further and said, no. Instead of taking your emails lets take the grayest emails that have ever been written. Guys that we know. Fifty different guys that have some of the best campaign sequences that we know make hundreds of millions of dollars. We reach out to them and go hey, can we templatize this. Yeah, knock yourself out dude. And they create mobile versions of that. Then my partner, Jon, went back and said, why don’t we pull from some of the greatest ad campaigns. So we went back to 1905 for the original Wall Street Journal campaign … 1910 I think. And 1930 for some of the [inaudible 00:24:11]. So we went to, we templateized the temple ice cream. The tourney’s in the emails. [crosstalk 00:24:19] No one … that’s not over 60, which I’m not, knows about, [inaudible 00:24:31]. Now it’s all in the machine, and the stuff that it spits out… you would read it and go, it sounds like you hired a dateless copywriter to do it for you.

Josh Felber:                          That’s awesome I know we’re inputting all of our stiff right now, so I’m excited to really start seeing it and what it can deliver and everything.

Jon Bensen:                          You’re going through the process right now, like, when I show it to everybody I go, uhhhh how long is it going to take me to fill out this intake form. I go, it’s gonna take you 8 hours. To fill out this intake form. Maybe six maybe ten. I’m not the 15 minutes, like, in 15 minutes you can send out an email … no you can’t in 15 minutes you can send out a piece of shit. You can send one into once, but you can’t send out a sequence of emails that will keep your prospect engaged and then do it again next week and then do it again next week and then do it again the next.

That’s what we rebelled against, is there’s gotta be a better way to do that. To do that though requires out customers to work with us. Now, we’re creating auto niches to where within four to five months we’ll have 50 niches in there that you can click a button- but you still would go through and make sure those variables sound like what you want. There’s no way around that.

But, my pitch to you is this. If you could spend one day with me, what would we do? And I’m five grand an hour, by the way. Say you spent a full day, so fifty grand. Fifty grand to come out and spend a whole day with me and you walked away knowing you would have every email that you need to write, including content written for you as soon as you want it. Would that day be worth it?

Josh Felber:                          Yeah. I mean it’s …

Jon Bensen:                          Yeah. It’s not gonna cost you fifty grand or 10 grand or anything close to what it is. Yeah, so spend a fricken day filling out the information. If you look at it that way, [crosstalk 00:26:13]

Josh Felber:                          Yeah, it makes sense then for sure. Why wouldn’t I wanna go do that?

Jon Bensen:                          Exactly. It’s the thing that I’m very proud of celebrating, it’s done billions of dollars a year for my customers in sales. I’m gonna say I’m more proud of this because it was literally like climbing Everest to figure it out and to get the … to pull in the great copy and to keep doing it month after month like we’re doing, I think it’s gonna be really helpful for a lot of workers.

Josh Felber:                          I think that’s awesome. Because even if it produced 90% of the content and you tweak it? I mean you saved yourself hours and hours and hours of time to push that out there, so.

Jon Bensen:                          I’m wanting that. It’s the same thing that happened with sellerator. It’s like I get in there and say look guys, I’m gonna give you … you could go literally slide by slide, and I’ve had people do that. One of the great case studies of this was the guy wrote Pandora’s box. Because yeah I just went in there and just went slide by slide? And he ended up changing some things, but it wasn’t a lot of things that ended up being huge but it was early on.

Other guys go in there and they’ll pick a slide or they’ll choose their own, but the slide will inspire them. And so what we want the copy to do is like think of this as the greatest white fall ever, and it’s already got your stuff in there. SO it’s like, oka, ooh. All I have to do is …. I would say just this way it was word- and then sense. Okay great, we just saved you however long it took you to send an email, but not just in time, you couldn’t have come up with that email on your own. Unless you’re a copywriter. You couldn’t have written that email from scratch. SO it’s sorta like time on steroids.

Josh Felber:                          That’s awesome.

And then so, say you have your company, maybe you have ten different types of products for example, does that allow you to then write for each of those different products? Or is it one and you gotta go in and tweak or something like that?

Jon Bensen:                          You can write for each of those products. What you do is you create a niche so, if you have 10 products in the same niche, you could literally just duplicate that niche and change just the offer.

Josh Felber:                          Just the offer. Gotcha. Oh That’s awesome, yeah.

Jon Bensen:                          But for you, you have multiple companies. I have multiple companies so I create different niches for each company. A lot of the stuff stays that same, like [inaudible 00:28:13] might change a little bit. If we’re talking fitness I’m talking where I was at my peak in my 30s. This doesn’t apply to internet marketing, I’m talking about how I didn’t know anything about writing copy when I … so those things will change by default. But yeah, for people that have … I have 10 different products in fitness, copy the niches, it’s basically the same problem. And then then I can go ahead and edit it on the fly and add that to the database.

Josh Felber:                          That’s awesome. How many types of emails in a sequence does it generate for you or you can generating multiple emails.

Jon Bensen:                          You can do … we built this on solo emails, because we … the thing about … and also we have sequences for the pro users. A lot of the sequences because the sequences are all rested, they’re my sales multiplier sequence which gets 700% more webinar scales that came from me and Jonathan Meizel built that. Todd Browns Ultimate sales funnel sequence, we got that. Just amazing sequences [crosstalk 00:29:10] So those are kicking. But I built this from a solo email perspective. I want an entrepreneur to go in there and go, “I need to send an email out today that’s content.” And they go in they search content and they pull up all the content emails. And they go “Oh I like this one. This one appeals to me. Or maybe this one.” And they look at both and say I’m gonna send this one. Because that’s how people think of emails. They don’t think … marketers don’t usually think in terms of I’m gonna have a sequence here to auto respond here and auto respond here. Advanced guys do, but even those guys, broadcast.

And a few people, there’s just not much that does quality broadcasts that sound different. And because of the fact, as you’ll get into, we have this feature called regeneration, the email rewrites itself … it’s almost impossible for the same person to send the same email [crosstalk 00:29:55] It’s really amaz- you keep hitting the regeneration button, it’s just rewriting itself. It does it instantly, so …

Josh Felber:                          Cool, that’s awesome. We got a couple minutes left. I wanna let people know where they can find out about ya, first off, so if you wanna tell them where to go.

Jon Bensen:                          To find out about me at FBI … no no. To find out about me go to … is for the VSL’s. Those are the two biggest ones out there., which I should build one of these days. Which I should build one of these days. I’m so … funny. I’m so busy coding this fricken copy prep for two years, I don’t have a personal website. But those are the two best places to find out more about me. And it’s fun. And also if you’re into marketing at all, we have a VSL and a demo of course on the email copy pro page that’s a great example of 15 minute VSL. So I teach people how to do a five minute, a 20 minute and an hour long VSL. You have roughly 10 to 15 minutes and have a VSL work, right?

Josh Felber:                          Sure. Oh yeah.

Jon Bensen:                          So yeah. Check it out.

Josh Felber:                          Awesome. Any last insights you wanna leave our audience with before we have to go?

Jon Bensen:                          One of the coolest things I’ve found that helps is to … if you’re interested in copywriting is to study what I call the litigator’s mindset. I did a whole three day workshop on this stuff and it’s just a cool tip that look at how lawyers close cases. Look at how that speak to the jury and how that close cases. That’s a really good way for you to close a sale. Because what they’re doing is closing a sale.

Josh Felber:                          Right. Yeah. For sure. And how to evoke emotion and everything from the jury and get them to connect with who the client is, or the defense.

Jon Bensen:                          Yeah, exactly. Without connecting to their emotions, can you just imagine somebody going “here’s why you should convict this person this this and this.” They’re talking about like … he did this terrible thing, and then he did this, and so then when you’re closing you need to think about the same thing. When you get this, this is what’s going to happen. If you don’t get this, this is what’s going to happen. It’s the same thing. Copywriters have been doing this for a long time.

And so we actually do this with an email, by the way. So those emails will come out and you’ll go, Oh by the way, there is a consequence for not taking action. People don’t get these kind of emails usually. You know?

Josh Felber:                          Right. Yeah. Definitely.

Well cool. It was exciting to have you on the show, I know we’ve connected at a couple different events here and there together and I hadn’t had a chance to really dive in and chat with ya on a lot of stuff so It was an honor to have ya on here today, and just excited to share your information and help with what you’re doing out there.

Jon Bensen:                          Thanks, I really appreciate that. It’s great being with you.

Josh Felber:                          I am Josh Felber. You are watching Making Bank. Get out and be extraordinary.